LWJGL Log: 2008-05-09 (#LWJGL IRC channel)

[00:15:37] *** Woflborg has quit IRC
[00:19:12] *** Absurd-Mind has joined #lwjgl
[00:26:22] *** OrangyTang has joined #lwjgl
[00:26:41] <OrangyTang> lo all
[00:26:54] <kappaOne> lo OT
[00:29:37] *** DarkProphet has joined #lwjgl
[00:40:34] *** bunz has quit IRC
[00:40:35] *** Don___ has left #lwjgl
[01:17:58] *** MatthiasM has quit IRC
[01:18:47] *** DarkProphet has quit IRC
[02:04:01] *** MatthiasM has joined #lwjgl
[02:04:27] *** OrangyTang has quit IRC
[02:44:46] *** Garvick has quit IRC
[02:44:59] *** Garvick has joined #lwjgl
[02:45:32] <kappaOne> hmm think i've got that unload dll's method working
[02:49:24] <kevglass> just converting in java 2D :)
[02:51:05] <kappaOne> ah putty would make a pretty good j2d game
[02:51:25] <kevglass> I'm building a little framework in the putty source that lets me use slick with java2d
[02:51:47] <lwjglbot> lwjglforum: Re: LWJGL 2.0 Beta 1 released <http://lwjgl.org/forum/index.php/topic,2607.msg14591.html#msg14591>
[02:52:23] <kevglass> rendering looks identcal so far
[02:53:11] *** javaman23 has joined #lwjgl
[02:54:06] *** javaman23 has quit IRC
[02:55:00] *** javaman22 has quit IRC
[03:16:25] <kappaOne> kev got a quick sec to try if refreshing works for you on windows http://kappa.javaunlimited.net/betashot5/betashot.html
[03:19:47] <kevglass> frozen browser here
[03:19:50] <kevglass> trying in a fresh one
[03:20:34] <kappaOne> ah sorry :)
[03:20:59] <kappaOne> was that on first try ?
[03:21:09] <kevglass> aye, find it when ever I get a version update
[03:21:21] <kevglass> next is normally fine
[03:21:31] <kappaOne> odd
[03:21:41] <kevglass> yep, fine this time
[03:21:43] <kevglass> and reload is good
[03:21:50] <kevglass> ff, win32
[03:21:50] <bgilb> full screen doesn't work for me
[03:21:55] <bgilb> kappa
[03:22:28] <bgilb> or well it works
[03:22:30] <bgilb> but its kinda buggy
[03:22:51] <kappaOne> bglib whats you computer setup?
[03:22:56] <kappaOne> OS, video card
[03:23:11] <bgilb> intel GMA x3100
[03:23:12] <bgilb> XP
[03:23:28] <bgilb> the problem is that im running widescreen
[03:23:38] <bgilb> so it doesn't take up the whole screen when i fullscreen it
[03:23:55] <bgilb> it leaves little borders on the left and right side that see through to the desktop and flash random graphics garbage
[03:23:57] <kappaOne> well its suppose to maintain aspect ratio
[03:24:27] <kappaOne> do doesn't draw on the borders outside game
[03:24:30] <kappaOne> should be black
[03:25:13] <kappaOne> *do = it
[03:25:31] <kappaOne> but guess repainting over those should fix it
[03:26:19] <bgilb> yeah i don't mind the borders
[03:26:27] <bgilb> just that is flashing random crap is distracting
[03:26:32] <bgilb> its*
[03:27:04] <kappaOne> i blame the intel drivers :)
[03:27:11] <bgilb> agreed
[03:29:17] <kappaOne> kev any idea's on that frozen browser issue?
[03:29:24] <kappaOne> or console output
[03:43:30] <kevglass> it seems that the classloader gets ballsup
[03:43:34] <kevglass> has copies of the old classes still in it
[03:43:40] <kevglass> new ersion comes along,
[03:43:49] <kevglass> generally just get a missing resource or class type meessage
[03:44:57] <kevglass> can play the game in java2D now :)
[03:45:02] <kappaOne> k will look into it
[03:45:07] <kappaOne> ah goody is it up?
[03:45:18] <kevglass> one sec, got a moment to test?
[03:45:26] <kevglass> webstart only atm
[03:45:48] <kevglass> oh, doh, have to a slick build for it
[03:46:47] <kappaOne> yes
[03:46:53] <kappaOne> same link?
[03:47:04] <kevglass> just a mo
[03:47:27] <kevglass> got to do some uploads first
[03:47:40] <kappaOne> k np, let me know when
[03:49:18] <kevglass> gotta sort out sound in now lwjgl mode
[03:49:28] <kevglass> still be a dependency on the lwjgl jar but no need for natives
[03:50:49] <kevglass> -= THIS MESSAGE NOT LOGGED =-
[03:50:54] <kevglass> first hack at a java 2d renderer
[03:51:30] <kevglass> need to get an obfuscator out actually, and see what it can get cut to
[03:51:47] <kappaOne> cool
[03:51:54] <kappaOne> works well here
[03:52:05] <kevglass> look pretty similar?
[03:52:24] <kappaOne> yup looks very similar
[03:52:38] <kappaOne> although can tell by its fluidity that its no longer ogl
[03:52:43] <kevglass> aye
[03:52:52] <kappaOne> probably not as much noticable on windows
[03:52:58] <kevglass> on the bright side I can change a flag now and it can go back
[03:52:59] <kappaOne> since linux is probably using software mode
[03:53:22] <kappaOne> can't get putties to join though
[03:53:59] <kappaOne> can click its as if mouse release isn't picked up
[03:54:24] <kevglass> wierd,
[03:54:29] <kevglass> first hack tho, not surprising
[03:54:37] <kevglass> works here on windows of course
[03:56:07] <kappaOne> how are you rendering to j2d?
[03:56:20] <kappaOne> just wrapped slick api to j2d api?
[03:56:29] <kappaOne> or opengl calls
[03:57:47] <kevglass> its done at the putty level
[03:57:57] <kevglass> sort of
[03:58:02] <kevglass> theres a java2dcontainer
[03:58:13] <kevglass> but pretty specific to putty requirements
[04:01:31] <kappaOne> ah btw kev in your console when running betashot did you get a "Unloaded lwjgl true" message
[04:01:35] <kappaOne> when you clicked refresh
[04:02:21] <kappaOne> since really expected that classpath problem to be gone
[04:02:34] <kappaOne> since it create a new classloader every run
[04:02:51] <kappaOne> ff has a bad habit of caching the lwjgl_util_applet.jar
[04:02:53] <kevglass> sorry, didn't notice
[04:02:55] <kevglass> really should go to bed
[04:02:57] <kevglass> nn
[04:03:00] <kappaOne> k night
[04:03:04] *** Woflborg has joined #lwjgl
[04:12:31] *** kevglass has quit IRC
[04:14:17] *** kappaOne has quit IRC
[05:10:21] <aho> phasers are ace
[05:10:29] <aho> utz utz
[05:10:30] <aho> <:
[05:15:22] <bgilb> laser phasers?
[05:19:55] <Woflborg> heh
[05:20:47] <Woflborg> that reminds me, i've been waiting quite a while for a company that has balls to release a space game that adheres to the "no sound in space" rule :P
[05:21:37] <aho> sound... phaser thingies
[05:21:42] <aho> sorta like a flanger, i think
[05:22:43] <Woflborg> instead of making the game about fancy scifi effects of random weapons.. it would be highly cool if the games soundscape would consist of the steady hum of the cocpits various gear
[05:22:49] <Woflborg> cockpits, even
[05:23:01] <Woflborg> and all the warning sounds and such when in combat
[05:23:55] <Woflborg> how a ship would tremble under high g-force maneuvers and the slight vibrations and whams that attached weapons would transmit to the cockpit through internal structures
[05:26:53] <bgilb> im so bored
[05:27:03] <Woflborg> i think a game with a subtle soundscape like that would have much better immersion than the games that consist solely of listening to a high pitched whine repeated over and over again..
[05:52:27] <bgilb> anyone have webstart program that has shaders in it :S
[05:53:14] <aho> matt should have some, i think
[05:57:47] <bgilb> darn it
[05:57:53] <bgilb> i dunno if its a opengl issue
[05:58:01] <bgilb> that shaders don't work on my computer
[06:02:31] <bgilb> lame
[06:02:40] <bgilb> only directX shaders work
[06:14:50] *** Chrizo_ has joined #lwjgl
[06:24:19] *** Chrizo_ has quit IRC
[06:24:23] *** Chrizo has joined #lwjgl
[08:07:03] <aho> oh gee... just had to rearange some pattern... 32 bars... switching the first 16 with the last 16 ones
[08:07:13] <aho> amazingly fiddly with all those velocity controls all over the place
[08:07:22] <aho> but it was the right thing to do :)
[08:16:26] <bgilb> do you have a website aho
[08:16:38] <aho> http://kaioa.com
[08:17:37] <aho> the stringbuilder/buffer/concat article was pretty popular :)
[08:21:57] <bgilb> do you even make games? :P
[08:22:26] <aho> ye, did a few
[08:22:44] *** maxx has joined #lwjgl
[08:22:54] <bgilb> the indie gamedev scene feels so alive these days
[08:23:02] <aho> it does? :)
[08:23:38] <bgilb> well the commercial PC game market is kinda dead
[08:24:37] <maxx> it is?
[08:26:08] <bgilb> all the games that get a multi release on PC and consoles
[08:26:11] <aho> it's bigger than ever... actually :>
[08:26:13] <bgilb> the PC counterpart sells well below
[08:26:20] <aho> oh... AAA ish... you mean
[08:26:21] <aho> right
[08:26:36] <aho> well, it isn't really dead per se
[08:26:37] <bgilb> although world of warcraft is still fairly popular :PP
[08:26:52] <aho> it's just... games are too pricy to produce for such a sorta small market
[08:27:19] <aho> crysis for example sold really well... however, they barely broke even
[08:27:25] <aho> amazing, isnt it? :>
[08:28:43] <aho> bgilb, well... what's your page? :>
[08:28:57] <bgilb> i don't really have one :S
[08:29:47] <aho> tsk :>
[08:30:53] <bgilb> i want to get good at prototyping all types of different games really fast
[08:33:30] <bgilb> and i'd like to work on a project with someone else to see what thats like
[08:34:42] <aho> get an artist or two .)
[08:35:37] <bgilb> i mean another coder :p
[08:38:27] <aho> and i mean an artist would be more useful .>
[08:39:45] <bgilb> im already a fairly good artist
[08:40:08] <aho> you are? :)
[08:40:16] <bgilb> yessir
[08:40:20] <bgilb> no programmer art here
[08:40:38] <aho> show me :>
[08:41:22] <bgilb> http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/bgilb/painting.jpg
[08:41:24] <bgilb> hehe :p
[08:41:37] <bgilb> http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/bgilb/tanks4.png
[08:41:39] <aho> oo
[08:41:46] <bgilb> http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/bgilb/van11.png
[08:42:11] <aho> ah that vandrel thing
[08:42:23] <aho> thought you used ripped sprites there (like everyone else) :>
[08:42:30] <bgilb> http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/bgilb/human002.jpg
[08:43:13] <bgilb> http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/bgilb/scientist2.jpg
[08:43:26] <bgilb> http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/bgilb/newworld6.png
[08:43:34] <bgilb> http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y10/bgilb/human02.jpg
[08:43:45] <aho> ye, you need some website
[08:43:46] <aho> :>
[08:44:09] <bgilb> then i can sell myself
[08:44:26] <aho> yep
[08:44:27] <aho> .)
[08:45:14] <bgilb> jack of all trades, master of none, but better sometimes than master of one
[08:46:38] <aho> well, being a jack of all trades is often alright since you don't need to be a master of everything .)
[08:48:59] <bgilb> i want to try and release a shareware game like puppy games
[08:49:02] <bgilb> i think that'd be exciting
[09:04:54] *** maxx has quit IRC
[09:05:07] *** maxx has joined #lwjgl
[09:05:07] *** ssteinhauer has joined #lwjgl
[09:07:39] *** Middy has joined #lwjgl
[09:31:23] *** _kevglass is now known as kevglass
[09:32:18] <bgilb> kevglass returns.
[09:32:57] <kevglass> indeed
[09:33:34] <kevglass> anything exciting going on?
[09:39:29] <Middy> lum
[09:39:53] <Middy> been assigned to my first game at my job
[09:40:09] <Middy> dont know what it is yet, besides multiplayer
[09:42:28] <kevglass> great stuff
[09:42:30] <kevglass> congratz
[09:42:42] <Middy> yeah, gonna be cool
[09:44:17] <kevglass> I take it you won't be able to say much
[09:44:28] <Middy> I dont know much :)
[09:44:41] <kevglass> but it'd be nice to understand process commercially :)
[09:45:06] <Middy> ah well we did a brainstorm the other day.. green phase and black phase
[09:45:28] <Middy> green phase.. anything goes,no critics
[09:45:52] <Middy> black phase... we must look at all the ideas and see if they fufill the demands from the managament...
[09:47:44] <kevglass> nice to get involved in the ideas at the start
[09:48:01] <kevglass> get the impression that in some places you're either a game designer, or a game developer
[09:49:56] <bgilb> i wanna be on an awesome gamedev team :[
[09:50:54] <bgilb> i miss highschool CS classes working in a team
[09:51:04] <bgilb> though i distinctly remember i was always the one doing all of the work
[09:54:46] <kevglass> atm, I'm just hoping I finish a game
[09:55:28] <bgilb> puttys pretty complete :P
[09:55:38] <kevglass> not even nearly :)
[10:27:44] <Middy> back.. had some panic stuff
[10:28:05] <Middy> anyway we ended up with 10 choices
[10:28:16] <Middy> and then management is going to decide
[10:28:26] <Middy> and after that the team goes in and specifies
[10:31:59] <kevglass> so the ideas are all front loaded?
[10:32:11] <kevglass> any room for organic growth?
[10:32:11] <kevglass> :)
[10:33:05] <Middy> no idea its my first.
[10:34:34] <kevglass> if you're allow, come tell us about it :)
[10:34:41] <kevglass> it's really interesting to me at least
[10:40:39] <Scient|wrk> where do you work, if its not a secret? :D
[10:54:42] <bgilb> anyone want to make a mobile phone game company with me? :P
[10:54:51] <lwjglbot> lwjglforum: Re: LWJGL 2.0 Beta 1 released <http://lwjgl.org/forum/index.php/topic,2607.msg14592.html#msg14592>
[10:55:08] <aho> j2me... yuck
[10:55:09] <aho> :>
[10:55:48] <bgilb> :P
[10:56:26] <kevglass> android games?
[10:56:36] <kevglass> no market yet
[10:56:45] <bgilb> i ment j2me
[10:58:19] <aho> man... it's hot
[10:58:33] <aho> and 1-2 months down the road it's going to be ~10° hotter
[10:58:35] <aho> gee
[10:58:38] <aho> don't want
[10:59:25] <kevglass> no AC ?
[10:59:28] <kevglass> get AC.
[11:09:17] *** Dragonene has joined #lwjgl
[11:12:10] <Dragonene> kevglass: sorry if I kinda left in the middle of discussing putty last night
[11:12:15] <Dragonene> had to go :>
[11:12:34] <Middy> sure I will
[11:13:03] <aho> split ACs are expensive
[11:13:14] <aho> and the other ones are an even bigger waste of energy
[11:13:14] <aho> <:
[11:14:04] <kevglass> Dragonene - ice blocks went in, but they don't function quite how I'd like yet
[11:14:34] <kevglass> i.e. blocks slide on them, but don't carry on sliding along them yet
[11:16:25] <Dragonene> kevglass: ah cool
[11:19:05] <kevglass> made it render and get input from java2d/awt also
[11:19:11] <kevglass> thats a bit of a wierd one
[11:24:56] <lwjglbot> lwjglforum: Re: LWJGL 2.0 Beta 1 released <http://lwjgl.org/forum/index.php/topic,2607.msg14593.html#msg14593>
[11:25:07] <jezek2> kevglass: seems the latest build is somewhat broken.. it's slow and I can't even merge blocks
[11:25:31] <jezek2> selecting is ok, but no action when I click to actually merge
[11:25:38] <jezek2> (trying the webstart)
[11:30:00] <kevglass> what icon does the window have?
[11:33:11] <kevglass> it might just be a cache issue
[11:33:23] <jezek2> normal javish, ie AWT
[11:33:33] <kevglass> I uploaded a java2D version at one point that was broken
[11:33:36] <kevglass> yeah, thats what you've got
[11:33:38] <jezek2> aha
[11:33:41] <kevglass> should be a new version on the webstart
[11:35:36] <jezek2> cleared cache and it's the same, I use http://www.cokeandcode.com/demos/putty3/putty.jnlp (in case you changed URL)
[11:36:05] <kevglass> na, prolly just not up to date
[11:36:10] <kevglass> sorry, guess it's broken til I get home
[11:36:16] <jezek2> hehe
[11:36:47] <kevglass> it was 3am, so guess mind was lost :)
[11:37:48] <Dragonene> so no slick rendering then?
[11:37:55] <Dragonene> I suppose it wouldn't matter for putty though
[11:38:01] <Dragonene> getting a nice framerate?
[11:38:12] <kevglass> no idea
[11:38:15] <Dragonene> are you still using slick for other stuff?
[11:38:18] <Dragonene> geometry and things?
[11:38:18] <kevglass> will be using slick everywhere but applets I think
[11:38:24] <kevglass> and yeah, slick is still all there
[11:38:28] <Dragonene> mkay
[11:38:33] <kevglass> just a little hacked Java2DGameContainer
[11:40:03] <Dragonene> ah :)
[11:40:11] <Dragonene> smart
[11:43:00] *** maxx has quit IRC
[11:58:58] <Mazon> http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2008/20080509.jpg
[11:59:02] <Scient|wrk> why arent you using slick for applets? :D
[12:00:30] <kevglass> I am
[12:00:36] <kevglass> just not lwjgl this time
[12:02:26] <Scient|wrk> okay
[12:05:54] <kevglass> putty fixed I think jezek2
[12:07:37] *** princec has joined #lwjgl
[12:07:50] <princec> lo
[12:08:44] <kevglass> lo
[12:11:17] <jezek2> kevglass: yeah, it's working now :)
[12:11:32] <princec> found out what the MSVCR71.dll problem is - it's actually a bug in JDK6u10
[12:11:41] <princec> there's already a bug report against it so it'll go away eventually
[12:12:15] <kevglass> \o/
[12:15:31] *** princec has left #lwjgl
[12:23:44] <Middy> lum
[12:42:48] *** Chrizo has quit IRC
[12:56:31] *** bgilb has quit IRC
[12:58:05] *** aho has quit IRC
[13:01:44] *** randomnr has joined #lwjgl
[13:04:38] *** randomnr has left #lwjgl
[13:22:39] *** Dragonene_ has joined #lwjgl
[13:38:04] <Mazon> so, head = stable or unstable ?
[13:41:15] *** Dragonene has quit IRC
[13:49:34] *** randomnr has joined #lwjgl
[13:50:03] *** randomnr has left #lwjgl
[13:58:58] *** Dragonene_ has quit IRC
[14:22:14] <kevglass> blank screen, no render, just a buffer strategy in java2D, fps?
[14:22:15] <kevglass> 160
[14:22:24] <kevglass> does this seem broken to anyone else?
[14:31:36] *** randomn1 has joined #lwjgl
[14:31:41] *** randomn1 has left #lwjgl
[14:31:48] *** randomn1 has joined #lwjgl
[14:32:51] *** Dragonene_ has joined #lwjgl
[14:33:20] <Dragonene_> kevglass: not really, no
[14:33:27] <Dragonene_> I think the framerate in java 2d is always pretty low
[14:33:56] <kevglass> thats painful
[14:34:07] <kevglass> putty is running at about 50fps on a busy screen on my work machine
[14:36:29] <kevglass> ah, worked it out
[14:36:53] <kevglass> putty still slow, but blank screen renders at more like 400 fps
[14:40:35] <Dragonene_> ah nice
[14:42:48] *** Dragonene_ is now known as Dragonene
[14:51:45] *** randomn1 has left #lwjgl
[15:10:11] *** mrdoob has joined #lwjgl
[15:20:28] <kevglass> yay
[15:29:35] *** kevglass has quit IRC
[15:51:14] *** kappa1 has joined #lwjgl
[15:56:37] *** Middy has quit IRC
[17:00:08] *** ssteinhauer has quit IRC
[17:11:31] <kappa1> mazon got access to your work pc?
[17:12:27] <kappa1> http://kappa.javaunlimited.net/betashot5/betashot.html
[17:12:44] <kappa1> done some changes to the classloading it now uses a new classloader every time
[17:12:58] <kappa1> so all static variables are reset
[17:13:00] <kappa1> etc
[17:13:45] <kappa1> could possibiliy have been a potential cause for the pixel error on refresh
[17:13:48] <kappa1> on some machines
[17:18:34] *** kevglass has joined #lwjgl
[17:25:03] <kappa1> but has allowed for some other nice stuff like jake2 now working nicely with lwjgl applet :)
[17:25:11] <Dragonene> kevglass: give me a while and i'll bring up a
[17:25:15] <Dragonene> little something on webstart
[17:25:28] <Dragonene> pretty buggy and as yet incomplete but still
[17:26:09] <kevglass> blobby!?
[17:26:11] <kevglass> woot!
[17:26:22] <Dragonene> no not blobby
[17:26:26] <Dragonene> something far less exiting
[17:26:31] <Dragonene> :'(
[17:26:35] <kevglass> tetris!
[17:26:39] <kevglass> battle!
[17:26:39] <Dragonene> aye
[17:26:44] <Dragonene> no :/
[17:26:50] <Dragonene> that's what me and Don wanted
[17:27:03] <Dragonene> stop sounding exited, you'll get all disappointed
[17:27:04] <Dragonene> :)
[17:27:30] <kevglass> I'm just generally in a good mood
[17:27:31] <kevglass> sorry
[17:27:54] <Dragonene> :D
[17:27:58] <Dragonene> that's nice to hear
[17:28:26] <kevglass> got a wierd little render bug in putty now tho, most confusing
[17:28:37] <kevglass> happens in both renderers too, so something proper
[17:29:16] <kappa1> kev got a java2d putty applet yet? :)
[17:30:05] <Dragonene> hm, I got arrayindexoutofbounds
[17:30:13] <Dragonene> some nasty bugs in our program
[17:30:17] <Dragonene> I'll try to make a webstart anyway
[17:30:23] <kevglass> nope, not quite ready yet
[17:30:36] <kevglass> is working locally tho
[17:30:40] <kevglass> music and sound also
[17:37:07] <Dragonene> slick is now lwjgl2.0a?
[17:37:08] <Dragonene> right?
[17:37:47] <kevglass> yeppers
[17:38:26] <Dragonene> mkay
[17:38:31] <Dragonene> I'll fetch the right natives jars
[17:38:49] <Dragonene> getting a slick webstart up and running isn't a quick process for me :)
[17:40:44] <kevglass> you could use the extension?
[17:41:15] *** maxx has joined #lwjgl
[17:44:30] <Dragonene> true enough
[17:44:37] <Dragonene> but I need to sign the jar anyway
[17:45:53] <kevglass> oh, it does some file access or something?
[17:47:28] <Dragonene> network
[17:47:38] <Dragonene> that needs signing, yes?
[17:50:00] <kevglass> depends who you're connecting to
[17:50:16] <kevglass> know if theres anyway to set the java2d system property flags for an apple tyet?
[17:50:52] <Dragonene> if you're asking me I've no idea :)
[17:52:52] <Dragonene> sorry, there's an error in the program that makes it not work in the webstart atm
[17:52:59] <Dragonene> and I've not the time to fix it right now
[17:53:03] <Dragonene> will try when I get home
[17:53:07] <Dragonene> I'm off now, later
[17:53:10] <Dragonene> sorry :<
[17:53:29] *** Dragonene has quit IRC
[17:58:07] *** kevglass has quit IRC
[18:02:19] <tmccrary> I'm using an older version of lwjgl and I get all kind of backtraces on hardy refering to things like native awt libraries
[18:02:27] <tmccrary> Ubuntu Hardy (Linux) that is
[18:02:36] <tmccrary> Is that fixed in some of the newer version of lwjgl?
[18:03:43] <kappa1> newest ubuntu was pretty broken when it comes to java
[18:04:11] <tmccrary> yeah I know, this doesn't actually cause any problems at all
[18:04:40] <tmccrary> its just really ugly looking having like 100 lines from stderr scroll by when the engine is starting up ;)
[18:07:38] <mrdoob> kappa1: that link you posted doesn't work, it's weird any applet done with jwjgl just seems to don't work here
[18:08:09] <kappa1> what os are you on?
[18:08:34] <tmccrary> crashes my browser
[18:08:55] <mrdoob> windows
[18:09:02] <mrdoob> but on the other hand, java+jogl works
[18:09:07] <kappa1> which browser?
[18:09:10] <kappa1> IE?
[18:09:12] <mrdoob> firefox
[18:09:19] <tmccrary> firefox
[18:09:20] <mrdoob> firefox 3 beta 5
[18:09:25] <tmccrary> although this time it worked okay
[18:09:45] <kappa1> not had a chance to test ff3 yet
[18:09:55] <mrdoob> I'll try on IE
[18:10:14] <kappa1> also which version of java do you have?
[18:10:55] <mrdoob> JSE6
[18:11:03] <mrdoob> update 5
[18:11:11] <mrdoob> build 1.6.0_05-b13
[18:11:15] <kappa1> the new java N (update 10) has much better compatibility
[18:11:31] <mrdoob> oh, interesting
[18:11:43] <kappa1> since it'll use plugin2 in ff3
[18:11:47] <kappa1> and ie
[18:12:13] <mrdoob> It says that I already have the latest Java(TM) Platform on my system
[18:12:30] <mrdoob> is that a beta one you're talking about?
[18:12:51] <kappa1> yes https://jdk6.dev.java.net/6u10ea.html
[18:19:54] *** kappa1 has quit IRC
[18:44:13] *** Dragonene has joined #lwjgl
[18:55:56] *** Dragonene has quit IRC
[19:02:07] *** spuz has quit IRC
[19:03:01] *** Dragonene has joined #lwjgl
[19:03:20] *** Dragonene has joined #lwjgl
[19:13:29] *** maxx has quit IRC
[19:22:47] *** Don___ has joined #lwjgl
[19:59:45] <Dragonene> *agh*
[19:59:54] <Dragonene> how to load a txt into a bufferedreader from within a jar?
[19:59:59] <Dragonene> any way I do it it fails
[20:16:07] <Dragonene> does anyone happen to have a server supporting java programs lying around?
[20:16:29] <Dragonene> I need to keep a central server running for my project ^^ :>
[20:39:29] *** kap1 has joined #lwjgl
[20:41:46] *** mrdoob has quit IRC
[20:44:05] *** kap1 has quit IRC
[20:48:44] <Dragonene> where's kev?! :/
[20:54:49] <Dragonene> anybody here?
[20:56:12] <tmccrary> Hello
[20:56:25] <Dragonene> heya
[20:56:45] <Dragonene> care to help me try something?
[20:56:46] <Dragonene> -= THIS MESSAGE NOT LOGGED =-
[20:56:53] <Dragonene> join the game that's up if you like
[20:57:22] <Dragonene> rather buggy, just testing the server
[20:57:50] <Dragonene> or never mind, starting it
[20:57:54] <Dragonene> :)
[20:59:59] *** kap1 has joined #lwjgl
[21:00:05] <tmccrary> ok
[21:01:38] <Dragonene> :)
[21:02:16] <tmccrary> I left apparently
[21:02:44] <Dragonene> ^^
[21:02:50] <tmccrary> I don't see anything
[21:02:52] <Dragonene> well, try it if you like, it's pretty bug and lots of features missing
[21:02:57] <Dragonene> might try singleplayer
[21:03:02] <tmccrary> oh ok
[21:03:05] <Dragonene> could use restarting the program though
[21:03:14] <Dragonene> it's pretty bugged currently
[21:05:15] <tmccrary> works pretty good
[21:05:21] <tmccrary> it did crash when I lost
[21:05:27] <tmccrary> or at least it just quit
[21:06:26] <Dragonene> aye it crashes
[21:06:32] <Dragonene> we've not sorted that part out yet
[21:06:42] <Dragonene> it's been all focus on getting the network to work
[21:06:48] <Dragonene> no other fixes yet
[21:09:15] <Dragonene> ty for trying though
[21:09:24] <Dragonene> gotta run ^^
[21:16:32] <tmccrary> np, later
[21:25:43] <MatthiasM> hi
[21:40:53] *** kap1 has quit IRC
[22:01:39] *** Scient has joined #lwjgl
[22:11:45] <Dragonene> oof!
[22:11:50] <Dragonene> where's kev gone?
[22:25:14] *** Woflborg has quit IRC
[22:25:28] *** kevglass has joined #lwjgl
[22:26:27] <kevglass> evening
[22:27:55] <Dragonene> heya kev
[22:27:59] <Dragonene> -= THIS MESSAGE NOT LOGGED =-
[22:28:03] <Dragonene> it's flawed and buggy as hell
[22:28:17] <Dragonene> I've a mulitplayer game up if you care to join
[22:30:17] <Dragonene> ^^
[22:30:20] <Dragonene> as I said
[22:30:23] <Dragonene> crashes at any time ;)
[22:30:26] <Dragonene> not in singleplayer though
[22:30:33] <Dragonene> in singleplayer it only crashes when it reaches the top
[22:30:42] <tmccrary> ah
[22:30:58] <Dragonene> ah, was that you joining?
[22:31:01] <tmccrary> yeah
[22:31:03] <Dragonene> :)
[22:31:16] <Dragonene> thought it was kev - inputing player name is only in for host yet
[22:31:22] <Dragonene> we're behind on functionality ^^
[22:31:31] <tmccrary> hehe
[22:31:45] <kevglass> got a failure on the JNLP
[22:31:45] <kevglass> could be my connections
[22:31:56] <Dragonene> also, for some reason "client" for the automatically generated name is in swedish
[22:31:58] <Dragonene> "klient"
[22:32:03] <Dragonene> kevglass: what did it say?
[22:32:06] <kevglass> com.sun.deploy.net.FailedDownloadException: Unable to load resource: http://www.swapgeek.com/mvk/multitris/multitris.jnlp
[22:32:10] <kevglass> ack
[22:32:11] <kevglass> sorry
[22:32:13] <Dragonene> hm
[22:32:14] <Dragonene> no idea :)
[22:32:28] <kevglass> it normally means the URL in the top of your JNLP doesn't match the one you're downloading from
[22:32:35] <Dragonene> oh it probably doesn't
[22:32:38] <Dragonene> I just switched URL
[22:32:39] <Dragonene> will fix
[22:32:41] <kevglass> happens when you move it
[22:32:57] <kevglass> I just discoverd that apparantly I was at JavaOne yesterday
[22:33:01] <kevglass> thats nice isn't it?
[22:33:25] <Dragonene> should be fixed now
[22:33:31] <Dragonene> uh, you were? :D
[22:33:32] <Dragonene> haha
[22:33:36] <tmccrary> yeah I met you
[22:33:41] <kevglass> awsesome
[22:33:45] <kevglass> what was I doing there?
[22:33:53] <tmccrary> I'm not sure, you were pretty drunk at the time
[22:34:08] <Dragonene> kev, try the jnlp again
[22:34:18] <Dragonene> http://www.swapgeek.com/multitris/multitris.jnlp
[22:34:31] <kevglass> downloading...
[22:34:38] <kevglass> http://www.javagaming.org/forums/index.php?topic=18618.new#new btw
[22:35:16] <Dragonene> oh
[22:35:20] <Dragonene> your games are there, not you?
[22:35:28] <kevglass> aye
[22:35:49] <kevglass> no one mentioned it to me
[22:35:49] <kevglass> so sad
[22:36:27] <Dragonene> slick, mootox AND tilt?
[22:36:31] <Dragonene> and you didn't even get notified?
[22:36:32] <Dragonene> that's just mean
[22:36:46] <kevglass> phys2d apparantly also
[22:37:08] <Dragonene> meh
[22:37:14] <kevglass> I guess in reference to moot
[22:37:16] <Dragonene> also javaunlimited, but not java4k?
[22:37:17] <Dragonene> that's a shame
[22:37:20] <Dragonene> out of date
[22:37:40] <kevglass> unlimited is a big site now tho :)
[22:37:50] <Dragonene> it is?
[22:38:00] <kevglass> do I join game?
[22:38:07] <Dragonene> sure
[22:38:09] <Dragonene> let me start a server
[22:38:10] <Dragonene> sec
[22:38:27] <Dragonene> up
[22:39:35] <kevglass> pop
[22:39:35] <Dragonene> oof
[22:39:39] <kevglass> shows promise
[22:39:39] <Dragonene> crashes too often in multiplayer
[22:39:44] <kevglass> are you lock stepping?
[22:39:53] <Dragonene> I don't even know what that is :)
[22:39:56] <Dragonene> try it in singleplayer and it'll work with no crashes until you reach the top
[22:40:07] <Dragonene> and then it will crash because there's no game over yet
[22:40:13] <kevglass> I played in single player already
[22:40:14] <Dragonene> also speed increases totally weird
[22:40:17] <Dragonene> ah okay
[22:42:55] <Dragonene> anyway, as I said :)
[22:43:01] <Dragonene> it's pretty buggy and is still missing features
[22:43:20] <Dragonene> but at least it's working without *terrible* delay
[22:43:34] <Dragonene> considering our non-existing knowledge of coding network games... :)
[22:44:43] <Dragonene> or was it very laggy for you?
[22:44:47] <Dragonene> ping display is all off btw
[22:44:51] <Dragonene> as you probably noticed
[22:44:55] <kevglass> incredibly laggy here
[22:45:00] <kevglass>  but then my connection is laggy
[22:45:01] <Dragonene> really?
[22:45:02] <kevglass> typing here is laggy
[22:45:07] <Dragonene> ah well
[22:45:11] <Dragonene> then it might be I guess
[22:45:27] <Dragonene> I've not played it internationally with anyone but you and tmccrary
[22:45:32] <Dragonene> tmccrary: was it very laggy for you?
[22:45:36] <Dragonene> in that short multiplayer game
[22:46:03] <Dragonene> by the way, it seems that the outputstream does not get flushed often enough
[22:46:20] <tmccrary> it wasn't that bad
[22:46:20] <Dragonene> any hints on forcing it to send?
[22:47:09] <MatthiasM> Dragonene: turn of neagle and use your own buffering
[22:47:18] <Dragonene> neagle?
[22:47:20] <Dragonene> :/
[22:47:29] <Dragonene> don't expect me to have any knowledge of network ^^
[22:47:31] <MatthiasM> (eg BufferedOutputStream larger then your maximum packet size)
[22:47:40] <MatthiasM> it's a socket option
[22:48:02] <MatthiasM> in BSD it's TCP_NO_DELAY
[22:48:41] <kevglass> nagle
[22:48:56] <MatthiasM> yep - that guy :P
[22:49:37] <Dragonene> right
[22:49:50] <Dragonene> because now it's temporarily fixed pretty much by flooding the stream
[22:49:55] <Dragonene> which is not an awesome solution ;)
[22:49:59] <MatthiasM> o_O
[22:50:04] <Dragonene> wasn't me that did it...
[22:50:05] <kevglass> that makes sense
[22:50:07] <Dragonene> *blames Don*
[22:50:20] <kevglass> flood the stream, fill the window, push the packet out
[22:50:22] <Dragonene> kevglass: flooding, as in, sending lots of unneeded data
[22:50:32] <kevglass> yes, that would fit TCP behavior is what I meant
[22:50:40] <Dragonene> it would?
[22:50:42] <kevglass> yep
[22:50:48] <tmccrary> Why not use UDP?
[22:50:48] <Dragonene> that's just wrong
[22:51:00] <kevglass> TCP attempts to provide congestion control by having a buffer that it fills before sending out data
[22:51:03] <Dragonene> because it's nice to know the packets will be recieved properly
[22:51:04] <kevglass> and a timer
[22:51:11] <kevglass> but you're using tcp
[22:51:21] <tmccrary> but why would you want late packets to be resent? :)
[22:51:21] <kevglass> you don't see packates
[22:51:21] <kevglass> you see a stream
[22:51:21] <kevglass> thats the point
[22:51:25] <Dragonene> well sure
[22:51:40] <Dragonene> but still
[22:51:41] <kevglass> turning off nagles will give you what you want tho
[22:51:48] *** bgilb has joined #lwjgl
[22:51:50] <Dragonene> won't it buffer too little?
[22:51:56] <Dragonene> that is, nothing?
[22:52:01] <kevglass> nagle is the chap that did the algorithm that provides the congestion control
[22:52:04] <Dragonene> tmccrary: the game server pulses now and then
[22:52:06] <MatthiasM> Dragonene: but be careful - every write to the socket will then create a new packet
[22:52:10] <kevglass> aye
[22:52:15] <Dragonene> MatthiasM: oof.
[22:52:17] <kevglass> need to batch stuff up before writing
[22:52:26] <Dragonene> uergh
[22:52:35] <kevglass> you already have some sort of message object though right?
[22:52:35] <tmccrary> We use priority queues
[22:52:44] <Dragonene> I'll let Don___ decide, he's the one doing most of the network stuff
[22:52:47] <MatthiasM> that's why you should use a BufferedOutputStream and call flush on it
[22:52:47] <kevglass> or something that wraps the data you're going to send?
[22:52:51] <bgilb> what is the most common cell phone resolution these days
[22:52:52] <Dragonene> currently the server pulses with given timer interval
[22:52:57] <Dragonene> and everything is sent out in the pulses
[22:53:08] <Dragonene> so data is pretty much packeted into those pulses
[22:53:22] <Dragonene> if an empty pulse is recieved, game clients do nothing
[22:53:29] <Dragonene> if a pulse with commands is recieved, game events happen
[22:53:36] <Dragonene> after X pulses all pieces are moved downward
[22:53:40] <Dragonene> that's how we sync the game
[22:53:50] <MatthiasM> sounds good
[22:53:52] <kevglass> it's about how you write out hose commands tho
[22:53:58] <Dragonene> so there's never any waiting for other players
[22:54:05] <Dragonene> a lagging player will just see the game go faster after a while
[22:54:19] <kevglass> if you write each one to the stream seperately you'll get a packet for each
[22:54:35] <Dragonene> that's what we're doing now but then we haven't turned off the nagle thing
[22:54:39] <Dragonene> whatever it is :)
[22:55:08] <Dragonene> so the idea is - turn off nagle, make sure our pulses are one write from a stringbuffer or the like?

top